TOW#9: Cavehill

[Tosh Marshall]

Here is my take on Cavehill played on the Shippey Cherry Mandolin:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFtHXZ-oHE
And then I mullered it in what seems slow motion on the mandocello:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_iW955IZgk

[harrywhohaa]

Tosh great version - you have some really clean picking on the Shippey - something I really should be working on.

I don't know if it's the camera angle but while your Mandolin picking is textbook DUD DUD jig picking direction the Mandocello looks like mostly downstrokes

As for sounding like "Men at Work" I had a good chuckle at that - but be careful you know I have a flute and I'm not afraid to use it!

It would be get to see some roaming London shots on your Q3 - haven't we already seen you trialling the Q3 on Primrose hill or somewhere? I liked the footage of your local session too

[Eric Renshaw]

(12-09-2010 12:42 PM)harrywhohaa Wrote:  I don't know if it's the camera angle but while your Mandolin picking is textbook DUD DUD jig picking direction .....

Interesting that you describe DUD DUD as being textbook in folk music. For a classical mandolinist should be able to make U strokes sound (effectively) identical to D strokes (and D strokes identical to U strokes), thereby producing a folk DU sound by picking UD. Players have to practise hard to achieve this, given the effects of gravity and the use of different muscle groups, but with some work they can be made to sound extremely close. This means that by using DUD UDU, or sometimes UDU DUD, pieces (in your example jigs) can be played much faster since this approach uses two fewer changes of pick direction per bar.

Cheers,
Eric

[Tosh Marshall]

Harry, Eric, after watching the video I picked the mandocello up to see what I was playing because I didn't have a clue as I don't think about these things! I'm actually doing the DUD DUD picking, it is the camera angle whereby I have mounted the Q3 on a Boom Mic stand overhead. It's a challenge to play it on the beast as I have only small fingers! But fun. I will look into getting out and about with the Q3 when I get some time Harry, work is getting in the way at the moment. The footage I took previously was in Hyde Park when I first got it and then at the White Lion Session in St Albans which is great (on my YouTube page). Men At Work, great band.....

[Tosh Marshall]

Well I didn't use the Q3 Harry but I used my pics and and a recording I did agess ago of 'Rakes Of Mallow' to try Windows Movie Maker to make this:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKA9cfTpm1k
A bit off the beaten track but it works! Didn't realize I had it!!!!

[harrywhohaa]

(12-09-2010 01:44 PM)Eric Renshaw Wrote:  For a classical mandolinist should be able to make U strokes sound (effectively) identical to D strokes (and D strokes identical to U strokes),

That's really interesting, I was not aware of the classical approach. I'll have a hunt around youtube to see if I can find some good examples of what you're describing may provide some good alternativesa.

And yes, textbooks in folk music? I should know better!

[Eric Renshaw]

(13-09-2010 05:08 AM)harrywhohaa Wrote:  That's really interesting, I was not aware of the classical approach. I'll have a hunt around youtube to see if I can find some good examples of what you're describing may provide some good alternatives.

Hi Harry,

I'm fairly new to the mando scene so what I have gleaned stems mainly from my music teacher and just chatting to folk. Although my main interest is classical I am still quite keen on the folk side and try and get to a couple of pub sessions each week. What I still find amazing is that there appears to be virtually no overlap between the two approaches. Whilst folk mandolinists generally tend to learn tunes by ear and pay little overt heed to how they hold their instrument and produce the sound (presumably relying on an innate sense of musicality in order to iterate towards a technique that they feel happy with), classical ones are trained from the outset to be acutely aware of body and hand position. When this is coupled with a strong awareness of colour, tone, diction and dynamics you can see why (again in general - no sweeping statement intended!) they produce a far richer and varied sound than folk musicians. Moreover, whilst the latter tend to play in open key positions (often G, D and A) via the first open position, the former use the full extent of the fretboard in closed finger positions which automatically gives them vastly greater control over their instrument. Pieces in C and F, for example, are often based around position II, which gives immediate flexibility for switching down to I and up to III with virtually no effort. Not only does this give rise to a much richer sound but it also enables easy switching across all 12 keynotes. Moreover, the closed finger patterns for major, relative minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor are quite similar, which again enables a far faster learning curve. I know nothing about jazz, but I believe from the few jazz websites I have looked at that this is exploited to great advantage by jazz musicians.

For the wider Edinburgh area Nigel is Musical Director of EMGO, the Edinburgh Mandolin and Guitar Orchestra, so you could chat to him for further info if this appeals to you. Whilst those in the West are catered for by the Da Capo Alba (adult) and Mango (youth) orchestras run by Barbara Pommerenke-Steele. I recently spent a highly stimulating week at the Dartington International Summer Music School with mando workshops in the morning (Alison Stephens) followed by joint ensembles with Craig Ogden's guitarists in the afternoon. We developed two pieces by Bartok and Katchachurian at full concert speed which was (for me at least) an interesting and challenging experience!

If you want to You Tube great mando players perhaps you should first Google Alison Stephens, Sebastiaan de Grebber, Ugo Orlandi and Caterina Lichtenburg (arguably the finest classical mandolinist in the world).

All the best, Eric

[harrywhohaa]

(13-09-2010 07:02 AM)Eric Renshaw Wrote:  If you want to You Tube great mando players perhaps you should first Google Alison Stephens, Sebastiaan de Grebber, Ugo Orlandi and Caterina Lichtenburg (arguably the finest classical mandolinist in the world).

Thanks for those artist names - I had a brief listen Caterina Lichtenburg and her playing is amazing - lot's more listening to do.

[Ptarmigan]

That's interesting Nigel.

I play a wee Co. Antrim Fife march called Cave Hill Side, which I learned from the playing of an old Fiddler from Cloughmills, Co. Antrim, the Late Paddy 'Stump' McCloskey.

Cave Hill Side

Cheers,
Dick