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Jim Reid Tunes
#1
I have been searching for the music for two of Jim reid's songs The Wild Geese/Noran Wind" and  "Up the Noran Water"  I can get the words and chords but cannot find anywhere the music either as sheet music or in a book  Any Ideas?

cheers

Alcluith
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#2
(08-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Alcluith Wrote: I have been searching for the music for two of Jim reid's songs The Wild Geese/Noran Wind" and  "Up the Noran Water"  I can get the words and chords but cannot find anywhere the music either as sheet music or in a book  Any Ideas?

cheers

Alcluith

Hi Alcuith,

I don't mean this suggestion to sound cheeky but why don't you try working out the melody yourself "by ear"? I realise this is a tricky prospect for many but these are fairly simple tunes and this would be good practice.

I'm not sure if the actual melodies are available in print or not but, in my experience "so called "song books" will only show a very basic melody which may not even be in a key which would suit you for the mandolin as a lot of these books are written with singers in mind.

I'm not entirely certain that the melodies for these songs are completely original and Jim may have adapted existing melodies. Perhaps Nigel or Jack etc could confirm this? However, if this was so, the tunes would still likely differ from the melodies used for the songs.

Perhaps one of the other members might even kindly transcribe them for you? I'd offer myself but I'm not "firing on all cylinders" at the moment. Just glad to be still here.   Smile
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#3
(08-02-2017, 12:26 PM)JAJ Wrote:
(08-02-2017, 11:36 AM)Alcluith Wrote: I have been searching for the music for two of Jim reid's songs The Wild Geese/Noran Wind" and  "Up the Noran Water"  I can get the words and chords but cannot find anywhere the music either as sheet music or in a book  Any Ideas?

cheers

Alcluith

Hi Alcuith,

I don't mean this suggestion to sound cheeky but why don't you try working out the melody yourself "by ear"? I realise this is a tricky prospect for many but these are fairly simple tunes and this would be good practice.

I'm not sure if the actual melodies are available in print or not but, in my experience "so called "song books" will only show a very basic melody which may not even be in a key which would suit you for the mandolin as a lot of these books are written with singers in mind.

I'm not entirely certain that the melodies for these songs are completely original and Jim may have adapted existing melodies. Perhaps Nigel or Jack etc could confirm this? However, if this was so, the tunes would still likely differ from the melodies used for the songs.

Perhaps one of the other members might even kindly transcribe them for you? I'd offer myself but I'm not "firing on all cylinders" at the moment. Just glad to be still here.   Smile

JAJ,
not cheeky at all, I just wish I was able to work it out by ear, I have tried for several "easy" tunes and have maybe managed a few bars, I am working on that but feel I am along way off.  I appreciate your comments and guidance It's maybe something I can discuss with Nigel at the next GFW 
 cheers

Alcluith
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#4
"Noran Water" (which may be more original) is a bit fuzzy in my head right now. "Norland Wind" is a lot like "Tramps and Hawkers". The distinctive thing about it is that each phrase heads towards a specific final note. You need to work what that is; then figure out what the first accented note of each phrase is; then fill in the space in between. Plunk away to a recording until these reference points get clear. Don't try to get every note in the tune at first - latch onto the important ones.

I am in the middle of rewriting my modes tutorial to include some material about the way tunes thread a path through identifiable landmark notes like this: it's still a recognized concept in Middle Eastern music theory ("seyir" in Turkish, which means "path") which Western music theory has forgotten about as a result of losing its folk roots.

This kind of issue is something SMG has never dealt with properly, and Nigel hasn't managed to deal with it either. If somebody is still looking at a book after playing the same tune every week for ten years, and can't pick up any new tune on the fly however simple it is, something has gone very badly wrong. There are strategies for getting past this block, they aren't deep and difficult, but they do require willingness to try. You might be surprised how fast your ability to play by ear develops once the process has started.
http://www.campin.me.uk/
07895 860 060
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#5
Jack

thank you for that advise, I do find it difficult to translate a tune into notes, a friend of mine, who only plays by ear always said you cannot play properly until you can achieve this, which I do believe. Unfortunately he said it will come to you eventually but I just don't seam to be able to do that. Barron Collin of MandoLessons also suggest that you should only learn by ear although he does provided the dots and I usually end up looking at them. His video's also lets you see his finger positions so although you do not have the music you can still cheat.

Your advise is very helpful and I will work on that, Nigel has given us some guidance on the construction of a tune and the phrasing but maybe he should take the approach of not handing out tabs and and encourage us to use our ears. I think you are correct on the willingness to try but again been eager to play something tends to make me take the easy route of getting the music and using that. I will need to take you advice and try harder.

cheers

Alcluith
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#6
Nigel is an excellent and well respected tutor. His approach does seem to work very well.

However, I found his approach a little different in the class I attended in that he didn't spend a lot of time teaching by ear unlike some of the other SMG tutors. He might do things differently depending on the level or type of class though...
It didn't represent a problem to me as I was already used to reading music and I also picked up the tunes by ear as I was going along. I did notice that those students who relied on the "dots" all the time could usually "fire into" the tunes straight away whereas I might have to think about certain passages first time around. However, by the next week, I would usually be able to play the tune(S) fairly well(if I had practised) whereas the others were still relying on the music.

Generally, the SMG approach is to teach the tune "by ear" first and hand out the music afterwards although most will provide the music earlier for those who feel they really need it. The late and sadly missed Angus Grant Jnr never handed out music at all and we had to find it for ourselves if we wanted it. Often this applied to tune titles as well. Smile  However, he was also a great tutor in his own right and I learned much from him over the years.
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#7
Tabs are a particular problem - they make it much more difficult to think of the intervals in the tune.

On the recorder, it is usually possible to transpose by a tone, with only a small change in difficulty. I have to practice a couple of times, but something like The Flowers of Edinburgh in F is perfectly doable. It would be on the mandolin too - but not if your mental model of the tune is as a sequence of finger movements.
http://www.campin.me.uk/
07895 860 060
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#8
Thank you both for for your replies although it veered of the subject I found it both informative and helpful. I do not have a singing voice, some would say I'm tone deaf so will need to just keep plodding away at it.

cheers

Alcluith
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#9
(10-02-2017, 09:59 AM)Alcluith Wrote: Thank you both for for your replies although it veered of the subject I found it both informative and helpful.  I do not have a singing voice, some would say I'm tone deaf so will need to just keep plodding away at it.

cheers

Alcluith

Gents

taken your good advice I have and an attempt to put the dots to the tune "Up the Norland Water"  I am not sure how close it is but I would welcome your feedback it


Attached Files
.pdf   Up the Norland Water.pdf (Size: 152.23 KB / Downloads: 7)
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#10
Not a tune I know, A, but you've made a fine job of getting the standard notation, TAB and lyrics all co-ordinated.  What software did you use for this?

If you are having a go at Norland Wind (The Wild Geese) I would be happy to check it out for you as I know this one quite well.  The thing with any song is that the notation will not always reflect the way the individual singer interprets the song and decides on phrasing - true too of course with tunes!  

John
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