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+--- Thread: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey (/showthread.php?tid=664)
TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 27-07-2011 07:04 PM
The Music o' Spey
![[Image: Music-O-Spey_tab.jpg]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R8WXGVCDg3I/Ti83djgey4I/AAAAAAAABFQ/NcHcUIZslPg/s800/Music-O-Spey_tab.jpg)
A beautiful composition by Scott Skinner which has the alternative title The Bonnie, Bonnie Banks o' Spey. I have it in a collection of Skinner tunes published in 1957 called "The Scottish Music Maker", compiled by J Murdoch Henderson.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 27-07-2011 08:21 PM
I don't agree with everything that is said, but that's not a good reason for silencing anyone. The former forum member took what Jack said personally, and that's a mistake, in my opinion. Jack responded to one of his posts with a comment about historical fact; he had a bad reaction to it, and now he's threatening me by email. I'm sure he's not as intolerant as this in "real life", but I will not gag anyone on the basis that someone else doesn't like what he says or the manner in which he says it.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Jack Campin - 27-07-2011 10:58 PM
Being of the generation that started out on Usenet before there was an Internet, I don't get this "remove my posts" thing - on Usenet anything you posted was forever and it was technically impossible to remove it, since the system was decentralized and there would always be a copy lurking somewhere. I've seen it on other forums where people throw their toys out of the pram and insist on having their contributions deleted, and I would prefer it if admins refused all such requests.
I've always acted as if there were an implicit contract that anything you publish on a forum stays on the forum for as long as it exists. Newspapers don't send somebody round with a felt marker to black out bits of the letters page on the issue you bought last April just because the letter writer took umbrage, do they?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 28-07-2011 09:08 AM
The Forum is the vehicle for airing one's views and for passing comment on the views and opinions of other forum users. When we sign up to a forum we accept that we will find remarks that we might not agree with, but the poster has the right to express his/her views - provided that this is done in a civilised and non-inflammatory way. I am a regular on three sites - this one, Mandolin Cafe and Mandolin.org.uk - and have found all three to be sites where the posters do respect the opinions of others but can still offer comment and in many cases constructive criticism. The Song-A-Week group on the Cafe site is a great example of this where we post our versions of tunes, usually via YouTube, and then await the comments coming in! We post to let others hear our efforts but also to get advice and positive criticism from fellow players.
As a poster I am always aware that the comments I make, when seen in the cold light of the written word, may be misconstrued by the readers and so I try always to choose my words carefully. Tone in the written word is a very difficult area to present (hence the use of all the emoticons and text abbreviations in common use in texting -
Lol!)We have a really good and friendly forum here, devoid of the dreadful flaming wars which seem to exist in many on-line forums, and I'd hope it continues in this way, and I just feel sorry that somehow someone has seen fit to take umbrage at the comments of a poster. It is more distressing that Nigel has to become involved as the webmaster of the site and I'd like to assure you, Nigel, of my continuing support of the efforts you put into this excellent site in all its sections.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Beginner Sandra - 28-07-2011 10:19 AM
Nigel, I don't suppose you have a PDF version of this tune as I struggle to get a decent print-out otherwise?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Jack Campin - 28-07-2011 11:10 AM
Will a PNG do?
http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/Scotland/air/MusicOSpey/0000
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Beginner Sandra - 30-07-2011 03:31 PM
Hi Jack, Thanks for the png. It is still blurred when I print out. I'll just work with it and it might encourage me to learn it by heart quicker! Either that or I'll increase the magnification on my glasses!!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Tosh Marshall - 31-07-2011 11:40 AM
Wow, did I miss Jimmy McJimmy or something? Anyway here's my take on The Music o'Spey........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbVtcmV7s9w
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 03-08-2011 08:04 AM
Sandra - sorry about the lack of a PDF; I've been rather busy. In the original post I have added a link to a downloadable PDF file. Enjoy playing "The Music o' Spey".
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Beginner Sandra - 06-08-2011 01:42 PM
Got it Nigel. Many thanks.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Jack Campin - 08-08-2011 04:00 PM
Tosh, that's helluva fast. It normally gets a lullaby-like feel.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Tosh Marshall - 08-08-2011 05:13 PM
Sorry Jack, I hadn't heard another version so was doing it blind so to speak, I didn't even bother to check whether there were any versions on YouTube......I'll have another bash later in the week when I have more time.....
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 09-08-2011 12:19 AM
Ooooo Tosh, it's definitely a SLO-O-O-OW air! Add as many ornaments as you like to it too, as you mandolin players can! A friend has a lovely harmony too. Put in lots of rubato too!
I'll maybe post my own version later, although I did transpose it into G.
In the meantime, try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_PidbiTWo
BTW, I'm surprised it's never found its way into any of your excellent session books, Nigel. It seems to be very seldom played in Edinburgh sessions that I've been to, but is a "standard session tune" in Linlithgow just down the road!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - JAJ - 09-08-2011 03:03 PM
(09-08-2011 12:19 AM)Trish Santer Wrote: It seems to be very seldom played in Edinburgh sessions that I've been to, but is a "standard session tune" in Linlithgow just down the road!
What's the other tune then?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 09-08-2011 06:00 PM
The Roke and the Wee Pickle Tow - of course!!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 09-08-2011 08:29 PM
At last I have got round to putting my version of this lovely tune on to SoundCloud. Played on my JK bouzouki and George Lowden O32 acoustic guitar and recorded using Reaper software. I played each part twice, AABB, as a variation rather than ABAB.
Trish, how about a melody line again as in our previous collaboration, though I just played in A as that was what Nigel presented us with. Could put it into G to suit the key I think you chose.
Here is the link: Music O' Spey
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 09-08-2011 11:40 PM
JK, I can play it in A, so will record it soon: your version is great, tho' still a little faster than I would take it.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - alistair - 10-08-2011 01:04 PM
(09-08-2011 12:19 AM)Trish Santer Wrote: Ooooo Tosh, it's definitely a SLO-O-O-OW air! Add as many ornaments as you like to it too, as you mandolin players can! A friend has a lovely harmony too. Put in lots of rubato too!
"Music of Spey" was one of tunes we arranged and played at the A'theGither workshop in Abington the weekend before last, along with two other Scott Skinner tunes, the Laird o' Drumblair (strathspey) and Angus Campbell (more or less the same tune as a reel).
But the other Skinner slow air I always associate with Music of Spey is Cradle Song (ABC appended). I have never heard it played in a session, or seen it used in a class. Nor have I had the chance to test how effective it might be as a lullaby ...
X: 1
T: The Cradle Song
C: J.S.Skinner
R: air
Z: John Chambers <jc@trillian.mit.edu>
N:
M: C
L: 1/8
K: A
| "A"Ac {c}BA e2 "D"f2 | "A"e4 c2z2 | "A"Ac {c}BA "F#m"{A}e2 c2 | "Bm"{c}B4- "E7"B2c2 \
| "A"Ac {c}BA e2 "D"f2 | "A"e4 "A7"c2A2 | "D"{FG}FE AB "A"{AB}c2 "E7"{Ac}B2 | "A"A6 z2 |
| "D"fd Ad f2 a2 | "A"e4 c2z2 | "A"Ac {c}BA "F#m"{A}e2 c2 | "Bm"{c}B4- "E7"B2z2 \
| "A"Ac BA ef ga | "A"e4 "A7"c2 A2 | "D"{FG}FE AB "A"{AB}c2 "E7"{Ac}B2 | "A"A6 z2 |]
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 10-08-2011 11:59 PM
Sorry, ABC doesn't mean much to me but I've used the Concertina.net converter to make it into notation, so see: http://www.concertina.net/tunes-temp/4e4319e771ec4.pdf
Definitely a song I've heard but can't think of the title this late!
Back to Music of Spey, one of the best versions I've heard is by Phil and Aly (Aly Bain on fiddle of course) on "The Pearl" CD of theirs: you can listen to it on iTunes: taken at slowish speed and plenty of rubato, and oodles of feeling!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - alistair - 11-08-2011 07:32 AM
(10-08-2011 11:59 PM)Trish Santer Wrote: Sorry, ABC doesn't mean much to me but I've used the Concertina.net converter to make it into notation, so see: http://www.concertina.net/tunes-temp/4e4319e771ec4.pdf
Definitely a song I've heard but can't think of the title this late!
Back to Music of Spey, one of the best versions I've heard is by Phil and Aly (Aly Bain on fiddle of course) on "The Pearl" CD of theirs: you can listen to it on iTunes: taken at slowish speed and plenty of rubato, and oodles of feeling!
Sorry Trish I should have attached the PDF of Cradle Song. [There's a link on Nigel's web site to a very good tutorial on ABC ( http://abcnotation.com/ ). I use a shareware utility Melody Assistant ( http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/melody.htm ) to convert ABC, but as you found there are lots of other ways.]
Do you think there are words to Cradle Song? Presumably not composed by Skinner himself.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 11-08-2011 08:47 AM
Alistair (et al),
There are indeed words to this great slow air. I remember hearing it first being performed away back in my tender years on The White Heather Club by the singing sisters Anne and Laura Brand - remember them? They did it in waltz time and it was called "Oor Ain Fireside". Done too by Alasdair Gillies, Calum Kennedy, Valerie Dunbar and others. Began with the words "Noo the bairnies a' are sleepin'...." Tried to find the lyrics on-line just now but not successful so far.
Alistair (et al),
There are indeed words to this great slow air. I remember hearing it first being performed away back in my tender years on The White Heather Club by the singing sisters Anne and Laura Brand - remember them? They did it in waltz time and it was called "Oor Ain Fireside". Done too by Alasdair Gillies, Calum Kennedy, Valerie Dunbar and others. Began with the words "Noo the bairnies a' are sleepin'...." Tried to find the lyrics on-line just now but not successful so far.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 11-08-2011 03:02 PM
Seems my pdf has disappeared, so I've now downloaded it properly and will re-attach.
You can find Scott Skinner manuscripts in the Aberdeen University (Elphinstone Institute) collection, and Greig-Duncan collection. There are words to the Cradle Song, maybe not the same song as John Kelly posted, here: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/display.php?ID=JSS0062
and to The Music of Spey, here: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/display.php?ID=JSS0721 Scroll down the page for notes on the author of the lyrics.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Tosh Marshall - 16-08-2011 09:40 PM
I had another bash at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv7YJ4AYYaQ
It's slower than I did last time! My last one was pretty fast!!!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 17-08-2011 04:34 PM
Much better pace this time, Tosh, and notes cleanly picked and all adding to the tune's "story". Paul Anderson said to me that playing fast tunes can be easier as you are quickly on to the next note so errors can be glossed over, whereas with the slow air, every note is important and is heard, so a wrong one is much more obvious. It has stuck with me as a really sensible idea and one I keep in mind when I try to perform slow airs.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Tosh Marshall - 17-08-2011 04:47 PM
Many thanks John, it can be difficult when you don't know the correct tempo of a tune. Had I done a bit of research before heading in like a bull in a china shop, then I would have seen it's a slow tempo. Really loved your version John, beautiful feel to it........thanks to Nigel for choosing this one.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 22-08-2011 08:56 PM
Does anyone have an idea of what sort of tune they'd like to do next?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Stephen Roberts - 22-08-2011 10:17 PM
I'd quite like a jig.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - NiallAnderson - 23-08-2011 09:20 AM
I was about to start trying to learn an English jig, Seven Stars (thanks to Google for some abc) -
X:1
T:Moon & 7 Stars,The. JaW.054
T:Seven Stars,aka. JaW.054
M:6/8
Q:120
S:James Winder Ms, Lancashire, 1835-41
R:Jig
O:England
A:Wyresdale,Lancashire
H:1/8
Z:vmp.Chris Partington, Aug 2004
K: D
d2A AGF|GAB A3|Bcd efg|fed cBA|!
d2A AGF|GAB A3|Bcd efg|Adc d3:|!
|:e2A A2f|efg f3|fgf e2d|cdB A3|!
BGB AFA|BGB AFA|Bcd efg|Adc d3:|]
after hearing it played by Spiers and Boden and Bellowhead - it's used as an instrumental after their version of a sea shanty (Haul Away). See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrKgIzWbwwU
Written down like that, the description sounds very bizarre, I'll grant you, but it's a cracking tune. Anyone like to join me?
Niall
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 23-08-2011 10:06 AM
(22-08-2011 08:56 PM)nigelgatherer Wrote: Does anyone have an idea of what sort of tune they'd like to do next?
Nigel, I have just been playing a great march called "Captain Lachlan MacPhail of Tiree". Here is a link to a Soundcloud recording I have just posted with the tune played on my tenor guitar (just finished building it) and bouzouki.
Captain Lachlan MacPhail of Tiree
I can produce abc notation and probably a pdf file if I am not breaching copyright regs.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - George - 24-08-2011 12:32 PM
John, you 'march' is a 'reel' by Peter Farquhar. It's in DONALD SUTHERLAND'S Collection of Highland Bagpipe Music. I's a great tune!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 24-08-2011 04:01 PM
Hi George, the music I have is indeed written in straight 4/4 time rather than in "dot and cut" as the pipers seem to call the dotted quaver and semi-quaver. I played it this way when I first got the music then heard a piper playing it in the way I have since transcribed it and I liked the different feel this march tempo gave it. I agree with you that it's a great tune.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Tosh Marshall - 29-08-2011 08:44 AM
Quote:RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey
I was about to start trying to learn an English jig, Seven Stars (thanks to Google for some abc) -
Niall, I had a bash at this, thanks for posting.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WXoGaBMCA
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - NiallAnderson - 29-08-2011 08:15 PM
(29-08-2011 08:44 AM)Tosh Marshall Wrote: Niall, I had a bash at this, thanks for posting.....
Well, since it was my idea, I thought I probably should too. Here's a pretty low-res clip of me attempting this. In my head, it sounded like the Bellowhead arrangement...
http://youtu.be/cVZUPaEVnq8
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 30-08-2011 08:33 AM
Niall, a good piece of playing and lovely picking and left hand fingering. Posting your first video clip is the crucial moment (I sound like a Scottish football commentator!). Now that you have that one done, I look forward to more. What is the mandolin you are playing?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - NiallAnderson - 30-08-2011 09:09 AM
(30-08-2011 08:33 AM)John Kelly Wrote: Niall, a good piece of playing and lovely picking and left hand fingering. Posting your first video clip is the crucial moment (I sound like a Scottish football commentator!). Now that you have that one done, I look forward to more. What is the mandolin you are playing?
Thanks, John, you've no idea how many attempts that took...
It's certainly an interesting experience trying to record and watch oneself. I noticed a couple of things straight away in the earlier takes that needed practice time (I was positioning my right hand at an odd angle from resting it on the very top of the bridge - partly corrected in the posted video), so it's useful from a learning perspective. I'll maybe need to look at camera and mic options to do many more - I was using a Microsoft HD webcam, which is ok, but not that great, really. Probably need to play with one or two other options.
The mandolin is a model A from Nigel Forster, with carved maple back/ sides and carved spruce top. Scale length is 347mm or thereabouts. Full spec is on Nigel's website, nkforsterguitars.com .
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 24-12-2011 12:15 AM
It's been a long time since the last post on this thread, but finally got around to recording The Music O' Spey on piano tonight: did it in A after all! (Er well, played it in G but used the transpose key on the piano!!) I'll do it on the button accordion another day! Like John Kelly did it AABB, tho' some play ABAB.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 24-12-2011 12:35 PM
It's really, really beautiful, Trish - thanks for posting it. In my head I head a descending bass line in the third bar, something like F# E D C# and then B for the E chord in bar 4. Sounds good in my head, but it might not sound so good in real life!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 26-12-2011 05:13 PM
(24-12-2011 12:35 PM)nigelgatherer Wrote: It's really, really beautiful, Trish - thanks for posting it. In my head I head a descending bass line in the third bar, something like F# E D C# and then B for the E chord in bar 4. Sounds good in my head, but it might not sound so good in real life!Thanks Nigel: that does in fact work and sounds good, tho' it would involve some chord changes. Also could do something similar with the 4 notes in the third bar of the B tune. I'll have a think and re-record it/send the chords.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 28-12-2011 11:23 AM
Just back from being away over Christmas, Trish. Will certainly be giving this one some time and attention now.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 13-02-2013 10:38 PM
Played a set in my band today: Hills of Lorne/The Quern/Music of Spey: all played at brisk March speed (!!!!) much to my complete horror, as it's apparently a set list for a certain dance.
I protested long and hard that all 3 tunes were far too fast and pretty well wrecked by playing at such a speed! Fortunately some back-up from a couple of other "slow air-o-philes". Then one of the band said Music O' Spey was originally written as a strathspey.....Well I know J Scott Skinner was The Strathspey King but this kinda stretched my imagination beyond limits!
Any truth in this, Nigel?
I HAVE put the "walk-down" bass into my piano part for the 4 As in the melody and it works really well - recording later!
Anyway, final answer was they will play it this way at the gig this weekend at which I shall mercifully NOT be present, but thereafter it will be used as a listening set at a more appropriate speed, and we'll find some other tunes for whatever dance it was!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - JAJ - 14-02-2013 11:40 AM
"my band"
If it's your band, then it's up to you to tell them what to do.
Once before, I suggested that many tunes were played at an inappropriate speed in some SMG circles which often meant that slow tunes were speeded up while some reels and jigs were often slowed down(I can understand the latter, of course, when players are in a learning environment.)
Of course, I was scolded for my trouble. Deservedly, perhaps, as I'm not always tactful or subtle enough when it comes to these things.
Anyway, while there shouldn't always be hard and fast rules about these things, I actually agree with you regarding this.
For what it's worth though, I don't actually enjoy listening to recordings of the great man (Skinner) himself. Many of his tunes sound too fast and just like a "flood of notes". It may be the actual recordings which don't necessarily give a true indication of how he actually sounded... it was before my time. Also, I believe(Correct me if I'm wrong) that it was often the custom to play faster for recordings so as the the tunes/sets would all fit in on one side of a 78 record?
However, I much prefer listening to other players, e.g. someone like Paul Anderson(and many others) interpreting his music.
Test. Post lost again
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Jack Campin - 15-02-2013 12:48 AM
Skinner described it as a "Scotch Air" in the collection where he published it, and printed words for it which would sound pretty silly at strathspey or march tempo.
Tune 78 here: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/images/JSS0720.jpg
Text (not very memorable): http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/images/JSS0721.jpg
I can't find a manuscript or printed source from Skinner's lifetime for the tune itself on the web.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 15-02-2013 02:56 AM
In The Scottish Music Maker (J Murdoch Henderson, 1957) it's marked "slow air" and is in A major.
In The Scottish Violinist (Skinner, n.d.) it's marked "slow air" and is in A major.
In The Miller o' Hirn Collection (Skinner, n.d.) it is marked "slow air or song" and is in A minor. (It also says "when sung transpose into A Major")
I have never seen it described anywhere as a strathspey, nor have I heard it played as one. I wonder where your friend got that notion?
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Jack Campin - 16-02-2013 12:38 AM
I believe some American "Scottish" dance groups have invented a piece of Brigadoonery called the "strathspey aire" (the quainte spellynge is a requirement). It moves like the Queen Mother on ketamine and uses tunes like this. Maybe that's where the idea of dancing to it came from.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 16-02-2013 05:37 PM
Jack, your image of the late QM had me in stitches. Now I have a recurring vision of the dear lady in full, catatonic flight, at an annual ball in the Castle of Mey or other suitable venue.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 11-03-2013 01:05 AM
Sorry John, but catatonia is when you get paralysed on the spot and canna move at all - no flight involved! But yes, one of Jack's better posts however!
Anyway, after months of waiting here is The Music O' Spey with the "walkdown bass" lines in it! (But it's still a bit too fast!)
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - John Kelly - 11-03-2013 10:54 AM
I like it a lot. Certainly no catatonia there. Just thought of a new title for a tune: "Homage to Catatonia"! Sorry.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - nigelgatherer - 11-03-2013 11:16 AM
That works supremely well, Trish - thanks for that lovely recording. I look forward to seeing the new chords.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - JAJ - 11-03-2013 03:44 PM
Very nice indeed. The piano is obviously your forte.
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 11-03-2013 08:10 PM
Thanks yin an a'! I'll try to put out a version with revised chords in due course (might take as long as the recording!) And thanks for the idea, Nigel!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 06-04-2013 05:36 PM
Just so happens I was asked to put chords to it for our band, so here it is with 2 lots of walkdown bass: Fsharp, E, D, Csharp, B - just as Nigel suggested back in Dec 11 ("something like F# E D C# and then B for the E chord in bar 4".)
The second lot comes in 3rd bar of the B tune.
The chord change in the last bar of the A and B tunes should of course be on the 3rd beat of the bar
See attached.
(Someone tell me how to find the "sharp" or hash sign on this laptop keyboard!
)Oh no, the dreaded roll-over problem again!
Posting again to see if I can force it!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Trish Santer - 06-04-2013 10:46 PM
One last try to force the roll-over!
RE: TOW#23: The Music o' Spey - Sean Cannon - 07-04-2013 05:47 PM
this is a lovely tune and ive started to learn it thanks Nigel